June 15th, 2005
I’ve been casually following the rocket-like trajectory of the liberal blogosphere for almost two years and now Chris Bowers has another serious treatment of the phenomenon:
By comparison, right-wing blogs have pretty much only one means of finding a new voice in the blogosphere: when someone starts a new blog. The inability to operate within a community must be the primary reason behind the large number of conservative blogs in the second, third and fourth quintiles of the Blogads traffic rankings. In fact, of these 120 blogs, 77 of them are openly conservative / libertarian. There are swarms of new conservative voices looking to breakout in the right-wing blogosphere, but they are not even allowed to comment, much less post a diary and gain a following, on the high traffic conservative blogs. Instead, without any fanfare, they are forced to start their own blogs. However, because of the top-down nature of right-wing blogs, new conservative blogs remain almost entirely dependent upon the untouchable high traffic blogs for visitors. In short, the anti-community nature of right-wing blogs has resulted in a stagnant aristocracy within the conservative blogosphere that prevents the emergence of new voices and, as a result, new reasons for people to visit conservative blogs.
Unless right-wing blogs decide to open up and allow their readers to have a greater voice, I expect that the liberal and progressive blogosphere will continue its unbroken twenty-month rise in relative traffic. Conservative bloggers continue to act as though they are simply a supplement to the existing pundit class, without any need to converse with those operating outside of a small social bubble or any need to engage people within the new structure of the public sphere. In the formulation of Stirling Newberry, they view themselves existing on top of a pyramid rather than in the middle of a sphere.
This is a much more in-depth analysis than the simple hive vs. herd analogy. Worth reading.
Update, 5:17 p.m.: After thinking this over for almost five whole hours, and reading thoughts from Polipundit and Mark in Mexico, it strikes me that it’s possible that reading blogs might be the intellectual equivalent of going out to protests. (Secretly, I’ve always thought that reading–and writing–blogs was more worthless than that even, but never mind for now.)
It could well be that the liberal temperament is more predisposed to blog-reading than the conservative temperament is in the same way that, for instance, modern American liberalism is more predisposed to protest marches than modern American conservatism is.
The size and number of protest movements, of course, means very little. In the 1990s, there were relatively few mass protest movements, but Bill Clinton was winning elections. Since 2000, there have been many big, impressive protest demonstrations by liberals–yet they’ve been shellacked at the polls.
(Come to think of it, maybe there is a correlation between liberal protesting and conservative electoral success?)
In any case, while it’s certainly possible that the success of the liberal blogosphere is a harbinger of an important growth in liberalism, it’s also possible that it’s a meaningless indicator.
None of which, by the way, invalidates Chris Bowers’s very thoughtful and interesting initial post on the subject.
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Frankly I don’t buy this argument.Here’s why.Yesterday I went to the Borders in Singapore and with some amusement scanned the “Politics” section. There was of course the huge number of anti-Bush books that were published right before the election. There were of course relatively few conservative/pro-Bush/anti-Kerry books. The “Hate Bush Book Wall” seemed to indicate a large outpouring of discontent with the President.There must have been a hundred anti-Bush books published for every one anti-Kerry/pro-Bush book published, but what book had the most impact on the campaign?The Swift Vets book.All the anti-Bush books cancelled each other out. I mean, how many books does it take to send the message that “Bush lied, people died”Ditto for liberal blogs.The vast majority of them are large circle jerks.Compare that to the diversity of the conservative blogs.A diary writer on KOS will get major play largely based on recycled ideas and venom towards conservatives.Conservative blogs on the other hand, in order to get noticed, have to produce.Produce in terms or original reporting, like Powerline and LGF on Rathergate, M. Malkin on immigration and homeland security issues, Roger L. Simon on UN corruption, Captain’s Quarters on the various scandals of the Liberal Government in Canada, OR on political acumen, like Daschle v. Thune, DalyThoughts, Jay Cost’s Horserace blogs etc…..Instead of going by rankings or readership, we should ask, what have the blogs done?I can’t think of any major victories for the liberal blogs.For the Conservative blogs, we have the taking down of Dan Rather, Eason, partially the taking down of Daschle, and much more.I feel fairly confident in conservative blogs.
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I’m not certain i agree with all his conclusions, but it is a very thoughtful analysis.Two quick thoughts:1. Is it possible that part of the problem is the over-represenation of libertarians among leading rightwing bloggers? The potential readership has more values or religious types, but they will find little to interest them at Instapundit or VC or LGF. 2. The leading right-wing bloggers are more careful about who they associate with. There are many similarities between Kos and Free Republic, but Reynolds rarely links to anything going on at FR. Kos, in contrast, is at the very heart of the left blogosphere.
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Hmmm … the followers of a political party that has put a candiate named Bush or Dole on every presidential ticket since 1976, some of whom, and you can Nexis this, backed George W. Bush in 1999 because they love his momma, behave like “a stagnant aristocracy.” Gosh, what a surprise. I’m sure all observers are shocked to find authoritarian tendencies among right-wing activists. I think anyone with grassroots organizing experience would find much the same phenomenon happening at all levels of partisan political discourse. In the broadest general strokes, you bring speakers to Republican community meetings in order for the speaker to tell the folks at the meeting what to do. You bring speakers to Democratic community meetings in order for the folks at the meeting to tell the speaker what to do. Republican caucus meetings tend to finish on time; Democratic caucuses always run late.If folks who lean right were capable of creating an inclusive, small-D democratic community, they wouldn’t lean right in the first place. Likewise, if folks who lean left were temperamentally equipped to participate at the bottom of a well-run hierarchy, they wouldn’t lean left in the first place. Deep down, what makes a person lean right is the desire for a benevolent dictator to just run the world and make things work; what makes a person lean left is the secret desire to abolish the state and just have everyone make every decision together around a great big campfire while toasting organic marshmallows so that we all get along. Those tendencies have real effects, and the state of political blogs on each side (inclusive but undisciplined versus hierarchical but well-ordered) is just one of them.
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An interesting and valid hypothesis because:1) Humans tend to organize in a hierarchy, from Sumer to Egypt to Rome to the early modern age to now.2) There’s no guarantee people will understand how a new technology changes all the complementary activities related to it. The rifled musket was around for decades and people were still being cut down in Napoleonic formations until James Longstreet saw his division destroyed on July 3 at Gettysburg. He realized a new approach to warfare was necessary, and his fortifications in 1864 presaged WWI by 50 years. There are about 1000 other examples of this throughout history.Similarly, the conservative blogosphere may be utilizing the old MSM hierarchy tactics.Jason O.
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I do buy the argument. I did a little blogging last year. And I did get mentions on the big guys blogs, one from Jim Geraghty at NRO, and a Hugh Hewitt special and one from JVL. But nothing could sustain that traffic. I blogged daily for awhile ona number of topics to see my traffic down to two diehards. I thanked them for their loyalty and closed shop. What the liberal blogs do, and do well is foster new voices. Are the voices in the Corner up and coming bloggers? No, they are the same old folks who write for NR or other large publications. Many of the conservative/libertarian blogs have to make their own way in the blogosphere, and since many of us are (were in my case) employed elsewhere and desirous of a life apart from work and blogging, we must chosoe between cutting bait or fishing, hoping that we get mentioned to spike traffic. Conservative blogs have tremendous influence, but it is like pitching, you can never have too much. We need more solid writers blogging and we need to promote them vigorously. It doesn’t matter if the left is in an echo chamber. What matters is what we are doing to maintain our stake of new media.
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I think part of the problem is that trolls and spammers are (or were until recently) more likely to attack a Michelle Malkin than they would Kevin Drum. I’ve also felt frustrated that we are not allowed to participate in the conversation on topics highlighted on PowerLine, for example, but maybe there will be readjustments if TPM Cafe shows a good model.
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I’ll keep it short and sweet, but I think that on the whole Bowers is probably correct in his analysis. It is awfully tough to get new stuff out there on established site, and that leaves many a blogger out there like me with having to almost do nothing but stick to older material that others have done while we piggyback some of their viewers.Anyways, if anyone wants to check me out then please feel free.On the Wright at http://www.onthewright.blogspot.com
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Why does one need traffic to continue operating a blog? Seems to me, it all depends on the REASON you are writing. if it gets numbers, then you need to write what draws people in. If its to write what is on your heart, then you won’t care if your numbers are thousands, or just 2. (or even just yourself)La Shawn Barber didn’t get where she is today by worrying if someone else was linking to her or not.But perhaps part of my problem is that the Corner is the only blog mentioned here that I regularly visit. (and you can write most of their commentators email. Note) I have followed links to Powerline, etc during various times. But they never got added to my regular reading.If you want a conservative blog with individual journals and comments, check out http://www.redstate.org/
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Hmmm. It’s been interesting surfing around and reading this. I find myself in a dichotomous position… I may be about the only “mortal human” blog that has *never*, *ever*, scored an Instalanche, though I do get regular mentions on NRO.I’m also about the only Top 30 TTLB blog that has a traffic ranking around 270 or so – I’ve got lots of links, but not much traffic outside of bloggers.I allow and encourage commentary, but I chase away the shrill moonbats of the right or left. Discussion is fine – but I dislike repetetive shouting.So, I’ve got a slowly growing traffic, as people seem to drop by and enjoy a safe haven from mindless yelling… but the high traffic blogs are either the big dogs who got started early, like Instapundit, or the ones that have raucous comment threads, where useful info is overwhelmed by the noise. Like the Usenet. It used to be very useful, and if one knows how to use it, it still can be – but once the porn aficionados figured it out…A similar thing is happening as the blog arena matures, I think.
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I wonder if it boils down to community needs. Who are the people most likely to be aligned with the Right? They are married with Children, involved in a religious institution living in the suburbs.Such folks don’t have time on their hands. Their social network is based on factors besides their politics, and they do not have the time, ability, or interest to pursue the meanderings of the blogosphere. To find a likeminded conservative, one participates in a Church or civic or family activity. To find a likeminded liberal one has to be a little more purposeful, and this leads to more online activity. These are obviously generalizations but I think might be a worthwhile consideration. It is in fact similar to the same drive that promotes the liberal tendency for Protest. Protestors are people with enough freedom to spend days holding a sign, and who revel in the developed community as much as the cause. If the cultural forces such as marriage, religion, and family tend to push one to the Right, then it requires counter-cultural activities like Protest or the blogosphere to find like-minded people.
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I tend to agree with Andrew Sullivan that different blogs, left or right, serve different purposes and have different characteristics and that’s a good thing.Some thrive on comments and a community feel (like dailykos.com) whereas others, like Sullivan’s own, thrive on the prose of the author.That said, I do take one issue with your post. The Right quite clearly has protests and marches just like the Left. Think about anti-abortion demonstrations, for example.
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Just my opinion, disagree if you like:Face it, there are a lot of smart people out there, but only a small minority combine the smarts, wit, knowledge and writing ability to be good pundits (that is, to say stuff worth hearing and do it well). If that’s what you want, then comments are mainly a distraction because for every commenter with something interesting to say, you are likely to have several others who don’t (exceptions being blogs with smaller, more select audiences). If, on the other hand, the blogger himself is just an emotional ranter, then inviting more emotional ranters to the party only makes things more interesting to those who, for some reason, like that kind of thing. The left just has more irrational emoters, thus comments work better for them.
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It’s a smart analysis and I have to say I personally have found it frustratingly difficult to interact with conservative bloggers.I’m a huge fan of the Corner and the NRO folks, but if you have something to add you get the sense that your e-mail is in a stack of a million, none of which anyone has time to read. I’ve even been quoted in the corner, though I was later told (and I’m sure it’s true) that six other people said the same thing. Maybe so, but it would still be nice to see that. Then I wouldn’t have to waste my time writing it.I can’t stand the politics of the folks over at Ain’t It Cool News, but I love being able to browse the talkbacks over on that site. Some of the funniest things I’ve ever read were in those posts.If K-Lo is looking for a way to harness some of the talent without getting overwhelmed, how about shunting comments onto a seperate blog so they don’t interfere with the layout of the Corner (for instance). One good submission gets you posting rights, one bad one gets you delisted. I even have the perfect name, something that will satisfy everyone. Call it THE HOLODECK!
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You can’t really gauge blog usage by growth. You have to look at the total numbers of visitors. I think it’s arguable that the conservative blogs are more established that the liberal blogs and are less of a growth industry. It’s been contended (establsihed, perhaps?) in the past that conservatives took to the Internet in larger numbers initially than liberals.Kos is the wild card in all this because his numbers are so high. I suspect the growth he’s had is directly related to the Move On grassroots movement as the two are linked in various ways (via Dean, etc.) I have to really wonder though if the left blogs are pulling in a greater number of readers that the right blogs.Finally, in regards to comments, they are a mixed bag. The greater the numbers, the greater the danger that a comments section will succumb to trolls and flames, rather than intelligent discourse. While such content may be entertaining and attractive to a certain mindset (just visit the Yahoo! news message boards if you want to see how low this can become), it really defeats the purpose of a blog. In addition, a high volume of comments is difficult for bloggers to police, and the conservative blogs, for the most part, are not big enterprises with staff that can sit around and monitor comments. That is a part of their appeal, in my view.
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Some bozo anonymous above said the following:If folks who lean right were capable of creating an inclusive, small-D democratic community, they wouldn’t lean right in the first place. Likewise, if folks who lean left were temperamentally equipped to participate at the bottom of a well-run hierarchy, they wouldn’t lean left in the first place.REPLY: If you want inclusive communities, try my church or my homeschool network or my wife’s scrapbook group or my Men’s Fraternity network. If you want a top-down hierarchy try a Union, or any of the DNC’s various constituencies. Your attempt at profundity was plain ol’ self-aggrandizement. The reality is that sometimes I want to hear from experts (generally, always) rather than just sound off with a bunch of like-minded folks and one or two “lifelong Republicans” who happen along to cause a ruckus.
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I am curious. Discussions of blogs and blogging almost never mention discussion fora. The only ones that ever seem to get mentioned are Democratic Underground and Free Republic (usually in dismissive comments about the latest DUer or freeper idiocy, depending upon your particular politics). Far more than a blog that allows comments, discussion fora are interactive communities. Many have thousands of members, hundreds of whom are active at any given time. Because they are relatively open communities, the problems of trolling and flame wars are constant irritant. But well-moderated communities avoid this. And many discussion fora are true communities. The most active members get to know each other, and often link up when they are in the same city. Some become real “offline” friends and some even hook up. This sense of community exists on the fora I mainly participate in and/or moderate, and none of these fora are particularly liberal, so I don’t buy Bowers’ “inability to operate within a community” explanation for the liberal/conservative blog dichotomy.Any thoughts or observations on the place of discussion fora in this blog debate?
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“…what makes a person lean right is the desire for a benevolent dictator to just run the world and make things work; what makes a person lean left is the secret desire to abolish the state and just have everyone make every decision together around a great big campfire while toasting organic marshmallows so that we all get along.”You must be kidding. “machine politics” was invented, perfected and still lives on largely as a Democratic institution. The desire in Chicago to continue the “Benevolent Dictatorship” of the Daley Machine is just one example. Think Camelot in Mass. for another.Where do you find the support for term limits and smaller government? Largely amongst Republicans. You need to rethink your thesis. “hierarchical but well-ordered”Most well ordered organizations are by their nature hierarchical. This provides no insight into Republican motivations or mindsets. “Inclusive but undisciplined” I Know that inclusive is a Democratic buzzword but the reality is not there, at least not today. Look at the makeup of Bush’s cabinet. Look at the big tent aspect of the Republican party versus the Democrats. I’ll grant you the undisciplined part. Take a minute to think about your stereotypes. They have no relationship to the present situation. In fact, your characterizations don’t fit the picture as far back as can be seen.
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One other thing: I remember how surprised I was to hear from a Pew Research Poll done for NPR that more than 50% of NPR listeners are self-identified “Conservatives”, by far the largest segment. A higher percentage of people who vote “Liberally” are much less interested in talk and substantive news (note: this is also the reason that Liberal talk radio will never fly). I have, at various times listened to NPR because I couldn’t find any other station offering news or talk for more than the news update on the hour.And regarding “fora” (sorry, I’m going to have to say “forums”); I believe that many blogs with comment sections are closer to the forum model (which, I guess Bowers is saying typically more Liberal). One forum that I frequent (anncoulter.com) is very much a community.
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There’s a lot to comment on here – I do think the Left does community better, whereas the Right is more apt to reward leadership. Thus, Kos is a much more effective organizer than anyone on the Right, whereas Instapundit is much more effective at driving a story and a narrative than anyone on the Left. Part of this is that the big conservative bloggers tend to be older and more . . . employed.But I do think the commenters on this are selling RedState short as a community.
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Liberal blogs with comments (esp. Kos) may have more “page views.” Does that even translate into more readers? The thing is, once people get into a hot-and-heavy debate about some posting or another, the same 5 people might be clicking on the blog 50 times on a given day. So how do we know that Kos’s higher numbers aren’t just due to higher repeat traffic from the same small group of people?
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If the big-time left-blogosphere is structured like the left’s favorite mode of expression (mass protest), the big-time right blogosphere seems to be structured like the right’s favorite mode- talk radio. In a talk radio show, you have lots of people listening to the host, and if they have something to say, they call in. If the host (or in reality, the host’s staff) thinks you have something interesting to say, he’ll put you on. Substitute “read” and “email” for “listen” and “call-in” and that’s exactly how the top right-wing blog sites work. Glenn Reynolds sees himself more as a vehicle for promoting and filtering what other people say rather than saying it himself (although he makes his points as well), hence his stated belief that “the long tail” is what gives the blogosphere its strength. But by the nature of the left-wing community sites, much of the left’s long tail is counted among the pageviews at Kos, etc. None of the right’s long tail is counted within Instapundit’s pageviews, so comparing the top sites is probably results in a biased count.
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> 1) Humans tend to organize in a hierarchy, from Sumer to Egypt to Rome to the early modern age to now.A ridiculous assertion. Humans have used heirarchical systems because the efforts being sought lent themselves to that system as a proper organizational form. Modern IP/Service systems do not, they lend far more towards networking organizations than top-down command structures.The reason why the GOP is so much more successful than the Dems is precisely that — look at where each gets its funding. The GOP is vastly represented by thousands and thousands of small contributors. The Dem funding comes almost entirely from a small cadre of ultraleftists like Soros, et al.Since the Dems get funded by a small cadre, that group gets far too much say in its voices and actions — and thus represents a far smaller group of people — an ever dwindling group if the congressional elections of the last *15* years are any indication — something which, I think the latest anti-American antics of the Dems and the left are making more and more blatant. Ridiculously anti-semitic “presidential impeachments” and ludicrously over-the-top comparisons to Nazi and Soviet democides (which go virtually unchallenged from the party elite).As a swing voter, I was getting pretty disgusted with the results of the last election (the behavior of the GOP electees was no better than historical Dems), and was pretty much going to simply vote against whoever was in office. The recent behavior of the Dems and the left make it clear — they are complete nutballs with no grasp of reality of any kind. “American Gulag” my ASS.As a result, where any Dem is close, I’m going to vote Republican. It’s an evil, but better the evil than the absolutely insane. I can UNDERSTAND the actions of the evil.
Anonymous June 15, 2005 at 5:38 pm
Singapore is right. Put simply, lefty blogs is where lefties go to confirm what they already believed or learned from the MSM, and perhaps to vent some rage about it. Righty blogs are where righties go to learn something new because the MSM for the most part doesn’t tell the whole story. Liberals may be more inclined to visit blogs than conservatives, hence the higher traffic, but I wouldn’t equate the traffic advantage with an increased influence.